episode 217
“How do I keep going when I feel like giving up?”
On Ask Kati Anything, your mental health podcast episode 217, Kati discusses getting past inner resistance in therapy, how to keep going when we feel like giving up, and what a therapist would do if their client is intellectualizing everything. She then explains what a body memory is and why our trauma memories can be so spotty. Finally, she discusses anxiety about making phone calls, and why we can be so worried about every little thing we do, and believe that people are going to think we are weird.
This is a transcript of Ask Kati Anything podcast episode your mental health podcast #217 Please note that the transcript is computer generated, and may have errors.
Ask Kati Anything episode #217
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Ask Kati Anything. I'm your host. Licensed marriage and family therapist, Kati Morton. I'm so glad that you're here. If you notice, my voice is a little hoarse. Is because we spent a long weekend in San Diego with our friends Kim and Ben and talking at restaurants, I. It's funny, since Covid I will get kind of hoarse really quickly. It's almost like my voice is not used to voice in so much. So anyways, all is well. I'm not sick, don't worry. just had too much fun. Now in this week's episode, I'm going to talk about getting past the inner resistance that we can feel in therapy. Also, how we can keep going when we feel like giving up. I know a lot of us can feel like giving up sometimes, and what a therapist would do if a client finds himself intellectualizing everything, then I'll explain what body memories are and why our trauma memories can be so spotty sometimes. And finally, I'll discuss anxiety. I'm going to talk about anxiety relating to phone calls, why it can be so hard for us to pick up the phone and call someone, or make an appointment, and why we can be so worried about every little thing we do, how we're chewing, how we're breathing, how we're walking, how we're moving, and why we can think people are going to believe that we're weird.
With that, let's get into question number one. This question says, Kati, could you possibly talk about getting past inner resistance in therapy? I've been in therapy for about eight months, and I feel like I've done some amazing work. But if notice that I'm hitting some type of wall within myself that I'm not sure how to get past, it's like I've kind of traveled through all the issues that I've been conscious of, but now that we're deeper in, I'm realizing there's a lot going on that I was not aware of. And although I have some specific things coming up to the surface of awareness that I can start processing, I feel a newer and maybe even deeper sense of shame than I've already worked through. It's almost like, I don't know or I don't exactly know where this is going anymore. And I've had sort of an obliteration of my identity through this process, and now I'm a little scared of who we're going to find underneath all of this. It's almost like if I get to my true self And I'm still ashamed of her, I don't have my trauma to blame on that anymore. Does this make sense? And is this normal? Is it resistance or is it just more deeply embedded emotional learnings from complex PTSD helps I was coherent, thanks for all you do. Kati. Yes, very coherent. And of course you're very welcome. Now a couple of things. This could be some resistance. Now when we talk about resistance in therapy, what we really mean is it's almost like we're sabotaging our process. Right? It's like the progress we're making in therapy. We kind of step in our own way. And the reason that we have resistance is out of protection. We can talk about it in part's work. They talk about it like we have these little protection parts or protectors that come out and stop. And these protections can be anything like intellectualization. These protections can be, I don't know, us acting in a very adult manner. We can feel like we have different versions of ourselves that almost come to our aid. One can be a distraction. We can distract with humor. Think of all the different types of what I would call, you know, I guess we could call them just resistance, but it would also just be kind of like kind of coping skills or distractions or other ways that we kind of deal with life. And so those come up full force in therapy. I have a lot of patients who will use humor or just try to distract me and take me off course, ask about something else, or take me down a rabbit hole we don't need to be in. those are all kind of forms of resistance. Okay, I know I may not have given every example, but I think it's important to know what resistance isn't. Therapy and why we do it. It's all out of protection for ourselves. Okay. And the reason that resistance comes up in therapy is because we're getting to kind of a nitty gritty, maybe embarrassing, maybe shameful part of ourselves. And that feels uncomfortable. We don't want to let people see that side of ourselves. And so our body puts up these protections, these this resistance as a way to prevent us from showing too much of ourselves. Okay. And that's why resistance comes up a lot in trauma work because of our friend shame that hangs around. And if you don't remember, shame is the belief that something is inherently wrong with us. Like we're broken in some way. Okay? And that is unfortunately tied to trauma and can lead to increased resistance. Now, with all that in mind, what this person's talking about is like when we kind of reach a layer of our processing where we don't know what's coming next. And so what you are experiencing, yes, is resistance. But let me kind of this is my hypothesis about what's happening for you. Okay. We've gotten to this layer. We found ourselves in this layer where we don't really know where to go next. These are things we're not aware of. We don't have conscious memories or, we're not astute as to what is going to come up. We don't know who we're going to become. We don't know what we're going to find. It can feel very unknown. And so my hypothesis is that we do really well with things that are structured and planned and prepared, things that we know what to expect out of them. And we have reached the land of. Not that I might even wonder if in your life, if you're very controlled, if you keep everything you know held together, really, if you keep it really tight, schedule, if you're really rigid in your routines and the things that you'll do or not do, maybe you hate last minute plans. I don't know if that's all true, but sometimes when I find patients come up against this like, well, I don't know what's there, I'm not sure where we go next. That's when they start to kind of resist or maybe fall apart more, because we don't do well with that. It's very triggering, especially with trauma, unpredictability or inconsistencies can feel, very overwhelming, like someone's just poking all of our trigger buttons, you know? And so I wonder if that's what's coming up for you. And this unknown just feels really scary. Remember, for a lot of us, we stay in situations and experiences, relationships, all sorts of things because they're comfortable and do not mistake comfortability for healthy or happy. Comfortability means we know what to expect. They've done it before. It's old hat, so to speak. And so if we're super duper comfortable, that doesn't always mean we're happy and healthy. But some of us will stay in unhealthy situations because of that, knowing that we have that that ease of it. And so just remember that, okay? Because I think a lot of times we can think that, oh, this is uncomfortable. I shouldn't do it. Comfort is a fickle friend. Comfort is I think it was Joe Rogan had a quote that came out recently, said something like, comfort is a really, like sneaky and attractive thing, but it's very it can be really devastating. And detrimental. No, I'm totally butchering it. He said it in such a way more eloquently than I am, but it's really important to remember that comfort is not always good and comfort can also keep us stagnant. They can hold us where we don't want to be. And so my encouragement to the person who asked this question is that because we're so uncomfortable and we are so concerned about what's next, and we don't know what is underneath all of this and who we are, instead of feeling like we have to move through it and we have to know where to go, we have to take all these steps. Let's focus on that. And sitting in that discomfort of the unknown, I might even encourage you to journal a little bit about other situations that were unpredictable or inconsistent, or we didn't know what to make of them, other uncomfortable positions that we've been put in or places we've stayed because of comfort. Right. So let's assess what's coming up for us because of this experience, instead of feeling like we have to move forward and keep moving forward, just what's coming up for you now, I find, would be probably incredibly beneficial in this progress and in this process. And I do not think that not having trauma to blame. I don't know how to word this in a way. Hopefully this makes sense. You're scared that if you get there and you still have shame about who you are, that you can't blame it on trauma. Trauma is a huge meteor that smacks into our life and affects how we think about ourselves and how we think about our environment, how we engage with the world every day. To say that if we've kind of processed it through and we get down to figure out who we are, that then we don't have trauma to blame on, like trauma affected you and you always have a right to reflect back on that. But I would argue that it's not about having something to blame. It's about self-discovery. It's about figuring out who we are without the trauma affecting us day in and day out, the trauma happened. We can't take that away. I don't want you to feel like you. You can't still reflect on that because you've processed it through. I want you to feel like you can go exploring in a way that wasn't safe to do when you were younger, and give yourself a little bit of compassion and space to do that work, because it's hard. And I think for all of us, a lot of us can feel like we don't even know who we are without our trauma. I don't know who I am without my past either. And so give yourself a little compassion in that space. But what I believe is happening is the resistance. And I think the way through it is instead of trying to hit it head on and keep pushing, let's talk about comfort and discomfort and inconsistency and things that are unknown. Let's talk about what comes up for us when that is happening. And let's slowly learn to tolerate a little bit more of that little by little. Okay, I hope that makes sense. I know it might be kind of like an esoteric type of answer, but I hope that it helps.
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Let's move on to question number two. Question number two says hi Kati. How how do I keep going? I feel like giving up. I have major depressive disorder, suicidal thoughts and self-injury consume me. I've done talk therapy, CBT, DBT, Act, TMS and ect. Nothing has helped now just so we all know what those mean. CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy. DBT is dialectical behavior therapy act is acceptance and commitment therapy, and TMS is transcranial magnetic stimulation. When you wear the cap and ECT is electroconvulsive therapy. That's like, electroshock therapy. Okay. Just so we all know what we're talking about, nothing has helped. I've been hospitalized twice. I've been on so many medications I can't keep track anymore. I feel so alone in this. I do have a psychiatrist, therapist, and loving family, but they don't understand. This is who I have been for years, and I don't know who I used to be or how to be that person again. There's a couple of add ons, quite a few add ons, so we'll just get into these one at a time. But. First of all, I'm sorry that you feel like you tried everything and nothing is helping you. unfortunately, you're not alone in this. It's common being a therapist, being a psychiatrist. It's it's tricky work, what we do to try to help our patients. Because everybody's different and we can't say, oh, you have major depressive disorder. You need this medication. We kind of know the class. But then dosage and there's different types and types of therapy. Sometimes CBT is really effective. Sometimes we need something different. Sometimes it's medication specifically that needs to change. Maybe you know we I don't know need somatic experiencing or eMDR. And so my advice to you and this is something I've done with a lot of my patients over the years, is let's do a reboot. Now, what I mean by reboot is I'll talk with your psychiatrist, have your therapist talk to your psychiatrist, or talk to your psychiatrist yourself. Let's go back and start over. Meaning with the guidance of your psychiatrist. Let's change our medications. Let's stop taking what we're taking and let's read it. And I know some therapist or psychiatrist out there might be concerned with me saying this. As long as you're doing this with the guidance of your treatment team, I'm fine with it. Do not do this on your own, but I will reconsider cases. Meaning reconsider what my patients have done, what they're struggling with, try to stop what we're doing and start something different. If nothing's working, it's not working. We shouldn't keep trying to do it, expecting it to feel different. And in your case, some things that immediately came to mind when I read what you have tried is that we need some different type of therapy. Something like the two that came to mind that I would encourage you to try eMDR and Somatic Experiencing. And the reason I say that is because what you've done is a lot of intellectualization focused therapies, meaning brain heavy think. Pay attention to your thoughts, change those thoughts, you know, argue back against those thoughts. Track that. Track your emotional response, find better ways to manage it. And I love all these options. I've done CBT, DBT, act with my patients. However, we haven't done movement, we haven't tried somatic experiencing, and not to mention eMDR because if we're having suicidal thoughts and self-injury, some going on there that I believe maybe we need some time to process. I know it can feel like, well, I don't have a trauma. That's not the only thing eMDR works for. It can help with a lot of things. And so I might encourage you to look into that. And also consider a different type of medication. What I mean by that is often we get caught in this like SSRI as MRI space. I'm not saying that that's the case. I'm not your doctor. Talk to your psychiatrist, but see if there are different classes of medication. For example, I've had many patients who had been on SSRI at sunrise. It did nothing for their major depressive disorder. They got, put on a stimulant because of their ADHD boom. Their depression got better. Now it's not as simple as that for everybody. but that's just one example. Another is that I had a patient go off of their SSRI and go on an atypical antipsychotic, help with their depression. Some people added that on to their SSRI reason, or some people went on a mood stabilizer. Talk to your doctor about other options for you, because I wonder if we've been sticking in the same class of medications. We can also do the cheek swab to find out which ones will work best for you. but that's kind of what I mean by a reboot. Sometimes we need to reassess. What we've been doing isn't working. We need to think outside the box. We need to think about something different. you said you've been hospitalized twice. I don't know if you've done treatment, because I do not believe hospitals are actually very therapeutic. But if there are treatment centers in your area. I used to love for self-injury. There was one in the Midwest. I'm forgetting what it's called, but safe alternatives. but I don't think safe alternatives is operating anymore. I don't know if they like. They lost our funding, sadly. but you can look into different treatment programs, different places. You can go. I even remember this is years ago now. But Kid Cuddy, who's a rapper, had suicidal thoughts and depression, and he went into treatment for it. Now I know he's obviously celebrities. That's a little different. But that means that there are treatment facilities available. So let's get you some different type of help. What we've been doing isn't working. This doesn't need to continue for more years. and one little tidbit that I will leave you with a tool. If we're suffering from major depressive disorder and we are not things are not working. The medications not working, therapy's not working. The best and most effective tool to combat our major depressive disorder is what is known as behavioral activation. Now, behavioral activation essentially means doing the thing that we used to like to do. Now, I know you're telling me, Kati, I'm exhausted. I don't want to do anything. Try it anyways. Push yourself to do it. White knuckle it if you have to. I don't care if you're so exhausted. It sounds terrible. Do it anyways and start with something that maybe takes the least amount of energy. Let's say we used to love walking our dog. Take your dog for a walk. Let's say we used to love coloring. Let's try coloring. But behavioral activation time and time again is proven to be the best treatment or tool against major depressive disorder. Okay, so give that a try. and the real question how do I keep going? Something that I've done with my patients over the years is having them come up with some reasons to stay alive. And I know for some people they may be like, hey, that's really heavy. No, it's really important. It's really vital. So these are things that we would love to do. Consider. Are there places that you'd love to see? Places you want to travel to, events you want to be part of? Like for one of my patients, she really wanted to see her younger sister graduate from high school. So that was one of our goals. That was one of her things. Right. do you want to find a partner for life? Do you want to get married? You want to have kids, you want to move to a different city? Do you want to have a certain job? Do you want to help other people? Let's think about that. Let's write those things down and we need to read through them. When we're having a tough day and we feel like it's not worth it because that's how we keep going. We have to have some longer term goals, short term and long term. I want to have something at the end of this week, then something the end of the month, and then something you know more long term. You can spread it out from there. but that's how we keep going. And I encourage you and I'm sure you have, like, a suicide safety plan, with your therapist, I have a video about how to create those. If you don't, that's how we keep motivated. I know it's hard, and I know there's days when we don't want to. But that's why you read through your list. That's why we try to stay focused on those things as we move towards them. And one last little thing I'll say before I move on to the comments is looking for glimmers. I know I don't always like the term people use online, but glimmers are essentially things that we that happen to us that are just nice. They're not big deals. It's like, oh, my coffee tasted really good this morning. I didn't hit any red lights on my way to work. Or I actually, didn't have any trouble getting dressed this morning. Oh, the shower felt really good. Oh, I felt really rested right there. Small thing. Somebody was friendly to me in the elevator. Say good morning. Those are glimmers and encourage you to look for those because they can really help us continue on when maybe we're wondering why we're doing it. Okay, now, the comments on this says, I feel this 100% as an add on, I'm curious on your thoughts about lithium meds. I'm currently on 90mg of Cymbalta BS boron and another one not trazodone. Those didn't help me, but it's similar. I forget the name right now, which none have really helped much with the suicidal ideation. My psychiatrist said that with the lithium added oh, with the lithium added, I should start noticing a difference. Can I keep having more and more scenarios and plans in my head? And I oh, because I keep having more and more scenarios and plans in my head to refuse hospital. Inpatient, outpatient both. I make sure to word things good enough to not be forced into the hospital. When I've told them I choose my words very carefully, I should be starting them in the next day or so when I get back. when they get back in stock at my pharmacy, then I have to have bloodwork done. Five days after. Yes, after I start them, because apparently they're high risk, which the risk doesn't bother me, but I don't want it to make me worse. I am, and I'm still doing eMDR therapy, which I think has helped slightly. Yeah, but yeah, I'm just curious of your thoughts on lithium meds when it comes to suicidal ideation. Also, would you know if confidentiality and therapy stays confidential after someone has committed suicide or not? That's a good question. And the truth is okay, first things lithium does they call it the gold standard. Do I love lithium? No. Because of the blood work and the fact that we need to make sure you stay hydrated, there's certain things about lithium that make it a little bit more complicated to manage. Not crazy. I've had patients on it define not stress about it. just notice if you have any side effects, okay? Just pay attention to your body. Notice it feels any different. but it is like the gold standard for bipolar disorder, and it is supposed to help with suicidal ideation. Now every patient is different. I've had tons of patients with suicidal thoughts and tons of different combinations have worked. You were saying that you're on Cymbalta and buspirone and another one that's not trazadone. Maybe you're on like, Seroquel or something to help you sleep. Sounds like. But we've had patients who their suicidal thoughts, you know, will fix themselves when they're on Latuda with their antidepressant or they're on a mood stabilizer with, an atypical something like Abilify or Seroquel. and so I've had all sorts of great results with different types of medications. Lithium is known to help with suicidal thoughts. So that's why they're going to it and that's why they're putting you on it. yes. You need to get your bloodwork regularly. I know that's kind of annoying, but it's really important for your health. and making sure you drink water. Those are the two things I always tell my patients and ask your psychiatrist any questions that you have. But I've had great success in lithium. We've also had patients who don't really like the way it makes them feel. I had one patient who made them wet the bed, and they were like, my age. so just notice if you have any side effects. Those are not all normal things, by the way. Those are just things that I've seen in my experience. So ask your psychiatrist for you know, any I hopefully they told you all the things to look out for all of the side effects that you should be tracking to see if you have them. But it is known to be incredibly effective with suicidal thoughts, so hang in there and I hope it helps you. Now moving on to the second part of the question, which says. Also, would you know if confidentiality and therapy stays confidential after someone has committed suicide or not? That's a great question. And actually had to revisit because in my mind, I was like, I think it does. I think confidentiality does happen. so I looked it up and yes, confidentiality does continue after someone passes away. we're still required to protect the patient's confidentiality, because an important thing to remember is that you, as the patient, hold the confidential reality. It's yours to either allow someone access to or not. And if you pass away, you can't really allow access. Right? However, sometimes if you have, like an executor of your will or you have a beneficiary, they can inherit your privilege, meaning that they can then choose to get the files or to read them, or to share them or whatever. And so just depending on what the structure is, how old you are, if you're under 18, your parents will have access to them, I believe, because they are your soul beneficiaries. But overall, as a therapist, I can't reveal any confidential details of a person's treatment even after they've passed away. But a family member may be entitled to your records down the road if that's part of you, know what you need, what they need access to to do things. You know, I don't really know why that would happen, but just so you know, you're still entitled to your confidentiality even after you pass away. Great question. Okay. Another question said this is the final add on. It says, can you talk about suicidal ideation in relation to narcissistic discard and the isolation that comes after being in the cycle of a narcissistic relationship? Now, this was a little adjacent to this as an add on, but we can talk briefly about this now. Narcissistic discard for those who don't know, is that when a narcissist. So there's stages of narcissism like starting with love bombing ending with discard. Right. And they can use and abuse this all the way in between. And because they usually isolate us from other people in our lives, when they do discard us and don't want anything to do with us. So come back around, by the way. So keep your, you know, keep yourself acutely aware of that. Be hyper vigilant in some ways, they we can feel very lonely because we don't have anybody. They were the only person. And so my encouragement for you is to get plugged back in as soon as possible, meaning reach out to the people you stop talking to. Reach out to a therapist, please. you can pick up, Doctor Roman's book. It's not you. It's about narcissism and healing from that, it's really incredibly common because of how how much negativity they've pumped into your life, how nastily they've talked to you, how poorly they've treated you. You're coming out of an abusive relationship. And so we really need to get you support. So my encouragement is to find a therapist, even group therapy. to get you some extra support. So you are reminded that you're not alone. You're reminded that it's not you. You didn't do this to yourself and that what you went through was abuse. And it's going to take some time for you to heal and for you to remember who you were before and to come out of this. But trust me when I tell you that you can and will.
Okay, now let's move on to question number three. Says hi Kati, I was wondering how a therapist would approach working with a client who intellectualize everything. I find CBT and DBT unhelpful because everything my therapist is saying, while totally true, I've already known about and pieced together myself. I think that's also where I get so stuck in therapy. I know there are these pieces out of place that aren't serving me. I know why I am the way that I am, but I don't know what to do about it. Like, now that I know all of this, what do I do with it? I've yet to find a therapist that can help me in this department. So when prospective clients are meeting potential therapists, what are some questions that the client could ask to communicate this? And additionally, what type of response should the client look for when deciding okay, this is so relatable. I have filmed a video. I don't know if it'll be out by the time this goes live. I think it will about how to feel your feelings, but intellectualizing is incredibly common. For those of you who don't know the term or aren't familiar with it. Intellectualizing is a defense mechanism. You know, at the beginning we're talking about resistance. Intellectual ization is a defense mechanism or resistance in therapy. And it's where we think about things and we think it through in all sorts of ways, and we see it from all angles because we want to understand it. Here's the kicker, and here's why you're stuck, is that understanding does not lead to feeling and experiencing. Understanding is only up here. It's not in our bodies. And so CBT and DVT you're not going to be helpful. You know it would actually be really helpful for you are things like eMDR somatic experiencing and maybe even some parts work. And the reason I bring that out, I bring that up is because you're in your head and we need to get you in your body. I bet if I asked you to explain to me how disappointment feels, you could tell me what the definition is, but you couldn't tell me how you experience it in your body. And that's where your homework lies. That's what we need to get you to do. That's what I would do with an intellectualization client. I am that client. and it's something that I work on a lot in therapy because I think it's the therapist in me wants to understand it from all angles. It's exhausting, but it doesn't get me anywhere. Knowing is not the same as doing right. And I've talked about that. Being a therapist means I know better. Doesn't mean I do better in the doing is the hard part. And so if you know what's like why you are the way that you are, how can you act or tap in in ways that you haven't before? And how can you sit with that discomfort? Because I'll tell you this as a fellow intellectual, wiser, we all like being uncomfortable. And sitting with that discomfort is really where the healing that I know it's a shitty answer. I'm going through it too. I feel you, but that's really how we move forward. And so you said, I've yet to find a therapist that can help me. So you can ask a therapist can say, hey, I intellectualize a lot. What do I do with that? That's a great thing to ask. You can ask, do you do any somatic work? Do you do alternative types of therapy? Tell them I do. You know, I've done CBT and DBT and kind of more of like the thought focused ones. That doesn't help me. I need something different. What kind of therapies do you offer? You can look for therapists who offer different modalities. Like I said, things I look for like somatic experiencing, an eMDR. I honestly think that that could be really helpful for you. And that's that's where I would focus. Much of, you know, that's how I would find somebody and let them know, hey, I can understand things. I can't do it. I need help in the doing right. Okay. There's another comment on this is I think I have a similar issue. I'm a pretty good talker and can converse about anything. How do I get past the words to where I actually feel anything? It's tricky, and it sounds crazy. Like I said, I had a video that should have come out by now about how to feel your feelings, but a lot of it has to do with tapping into our bodies. Somatic experiencing is a beautiful thing to get into if you can, or if you could do trauma informed yoga, they offer it at Hope for recovery.org. The hope in the number for recovery. they offer trauma informed yoga. I would encourage you to check that out. I also want you to start to recognize how you experience different emotions in your body. Is this going to be comfortable or easy? Absolutely not. We can trigger this at home first. To start off, these can be things like watching a TV show or a film that trigger sadness or anger or excitement. notice how you feel like even if you don't like the movie, what does it feel like to be like disgusted by it or angry about it or not like the character? Where do you feel that? What's that like? I know this sounds weird, but we can think about things. We can journal about things. We can, but that's not what we're the problem is. The problem is actually allowing ourselves to experience it. And so we have to tap into our body and figure out where we're experiencing these emotions. It's going to take work. It's going to feel uncomfortable at first. Just like anything. If we don't understand it or aren't familiar with it, it's going to take some practice. So be patient with yourself. Well, let's get into like how we would experience a certain emotion in our body. We can trigger it through music or movies. Let's start there. Okay. And there was another comments that I also struggle with a similar problem to add on, because I also study psychology. Yeah, I often know the reason or possible motivations behind what I do or think I feel like this sometimes hinders me when I'm trying to express what I'm really dealing with. And I just think, okay, I could be doing X because of Y, and yeah, that kind of sounds like me. And just give whatever it is, as my reason to my therapist in case it doesn't make sense. As an example, I know that I to express one's internal pain as the reasons behind self-harm behaviors. And when I think about it, I'm like, I guess that feels true and state that as the case, even though I don't conjure or realize the that cause on my own. And I got it from a textbook because of this, I often find my therapists follow up, my therapists follow up questions to be difficult to answer. Is it because I'm intellectualizing the root cause of my problems, or are those relatively straightforward things really what's causing me to do or think in a certain way? What could I do about this? Thanks so much. Okay, I love this and on top of what I've already expressed, I would encourage you in therapy to know this is something that I try to do too. I in therapy, I tried to stop myself from being sure about things to say. Yeah, I think this is probably coming from here. I think I'm doing this because of that. Instead, I encourage you to say, I'm feeling this kind of way and I'm acting this way and I don't like it. I know it's going to take practice, and when you're in therapy, you're going to be mid-sentence, as you're about to say, I think it could be happening from here. And I want you to stop, and I want you to say, I'm not really sure because that's actually the truth, thinking that we can understand. Or we could see where something comes from again, isn't us feeling it, and isn't us coming to that conclusion. It's us making assumptions based on what we know from a book, not what we feel in our bodies. I know it's hard. I feel I have hard time too, but pay attention to that. Let's try to stop making those assumptions, because essentially those assumptions are leading you down a path that probably doesn't feel authentic because you're like, I don't know how to answer my therapist follow up questions because we didn't get to our realization on our own. We like kind of not made it up, but we're jumping to it. We like jump to that conclusion or jump to that assumption instead of feeling our way along that path and then realizing it. I will tell you personally and professionally, there's a huge difference between like acknowledging something or understanding a connection and coming to a realization. Realizations are like, boom! And it feels like your world is rocked and it's super powerful and it's not something we forget assumptions or expectations or what we think is should happen. Because I read it in a book has I have personally, it has no emotional impact. Realizations do and they're so much more powerful. So give yourself an opportunity to come to the realization instead of just jump into it in the end anyway. Okay, I hope that helps.
Moving on to question number four, it says, Hi Kati, I hope you're well, I am, I hope you're well. So I saw one of your older videos about people not remembering their trauma or remembering it in patches, but I'm the opposite. I remember what happened to me in great detail, even down to what I was wearing, what they were wearing, the day and time and everything. That's very common to. I feel like it. Everybody's experience is different. It's really hard to say, but for a lot of people, they're spotty or no memory. And for some of my patients, it's like you, it's like vivid. One of my patients used to say it's like an HD. The only problem I do have is deciding what if what actually happened to me was sexual assault or not. I wasn't raped. I understand if you can't read this part, I can tolerate this part. I met a boy who asked if he could put his arm around me, and I was a bit unsure, but went along with this and it led to him kissing me quite forcefully and I just didn't react. I couldn't, it was like my brain was screaming at me to push him away or tell him to stop my body wouldn't move. To add on, I went to school the next day and felt like everybody knew. Someone called me out and said that they saw me with this boy and I just denied, denied, denied. The boy in question later spoke to me and asked why. I abruptly left and I felt like I needed to explain. So I told him I didn't want him to kiss me, etc. he just apologized and said he thought that I was into it. It left me really confused. I don't know if this alone would have had the effect on me that it did, or whether this was made worse by other things going on. Sexual harassment, bullying at school in which a group of boys would grope my waist and shoulders. There it is. I was wondering why this reaction, while making sexualized comments or laugh when they could see that I was uncomfortable or getting upset. When I spoke to a teacher about it, I was told to just ignore them and that they would get bored. Unfortunately, they didn't. I tried fawning, I think, where I would laugh along with them in hopes that if they thought I wasn't bothered, that they would stop. To add on to that, I find that whenever someone touches me around my waist or shoulders that I get jumpy and feel panicked. Could this be classed as a body memory? Thank you for all that you do. I'm really grateful for your videos. Of course, of course. Okay, there's a lot going on here. Now, your reaction to this boy putting his arm over you and kissing you forcefully while very warranted. But I was surprised you went into freeze because something to remember, just to keep in mind, is that it's a natural, human like nervous system response for us to go into fight or flight. Meaning if he tried to do that, we'd push him back, get away by, punch him, slap him in the face, or we'd run away. When we freeze, it's usually because we don't have any other way to get out of a situation. Now, in that situation, you technically did, but it didn't feel that way. And in my experience, that usually comes from past trauma. So when you when I was reading this first, I'm like, that seems like a freeze response. I'm surprised. Maybe she has complex PTSD already or something, right? Because freeze is born out of the feeling that we can never get away. And it's it's usually childhood trauma, but not always. And in your case, it comes from the fact that you've been bullied and sexually harassed at school, and there's like nothing you can do to get out of it. You've tried to to go along with it. You probably tried to fight back or or run away. You tried to talk, fighting back, even talking to the teachers. You're trying to get help and then there's no help. And so what do we do when we have no other way out? We go into that free state. And so that's why that's what happened. Okay. The the previous trauma of being bullied and harassed has led you into that free state. And I think it's just important to remember that fight and flight are those normal kind of self-preservation type of actions, right. Either a bear comes at us and we're in a cave, we punch it or we run away. Can we beat it? Nope. Okay. We run away. Those are self-preservation. Freeze is an alternative form as well as fawning to self-preservation because fight and flight have not worked or not available. Okay, it's almost like we'd rather do fight flight. But then if those don't earn an option, we go to the third option or fourth option. Okay? And so what has happened to you is you have been traumatized by the sexual harassment at school, and that is leading to what I would call hyper vigilance, or being very jumpy about anybody touching you in a way that reminds you of that trauma very, very common. When we have PTSD, we try to avoid anything that reminds us of that trauma. Okay. And so one's own put their hands around your waist or touches your shoulders. You're like, it's it's overwhelming. You feel like you're right back there and it's happening again. That's not necessarily a body memory. It could be. But it's a it's a trigger. It's a basic memory or an attachment to a sensation with a trauma. So that makes sense. I hope so and so I'm glad you told the boy that you, like, did want him to kiss you and things like that. I'm sorry that it was so forceful. I that could that could be considered sexual assault. You did not consent to that. And in all honesty, I'm more concerned about the fact that you were traumatized by the sexual harassment and bullying at school, and that is what has led to that feeling so overwhelming. And you not feeling like you could push him away or get out. And so all this stuff that's happened to you is sexual harassment, sexual assault. A person kissed you without your consent and forced himself on you in a way that wasn't appropriate. You have every right to feel the way that you feel, and my encouragement for you is to reach out to a trauma therapist in your area, and start processing through all you're going through. And I would honestly encourage you to utilize the school and see if you can press charges or do something for the kids that are bullying you and sexually harassing you. I know you might think it's just going to make it worse, but to feel that unsafe and to have them just continue to laugh, like to poke to, it's not appropriate. It's not okay. And you shouldn't feel unsafe at school. And if you have a therapist, we go on your behalf and essentially force the school to do something. Since I find schools can be really difficult, some are great, but I also find that they can be really slow to take action, where as a therapist, I want my patients to feel safe. So let somebody come in and advocate for you, okay. And there's an ad on it said to add on to this being, is being groomed online abuse and trauma 100% grooming. If you don't know, is when we are slowly it's almost like turning up the temperature of a pot of water. You know, the frog. I don't know if you've heard that analogy before, but if you put like, I don't, I always hate that it's a frog. Let's pretend it's something else. Let's say, you know, it's it's a cockroach because I hate cockroaches. And they put them in water, and you slowly turn up the temperature and they won't notice, and then they'll die. They'll slowly cook because they just slowly you slowly warm it. Grooming is kind of like that where, someone will manipulate you slowly, get you used to the to different behaviors and more sexualized behaviors and normal with the goal of abusing you. And so if you're being groomed online with the goal of, you know, them doing harmful stuff to you. So the grooming itself is not trauma that but it will lead to abuse and trauma. Does that make sense? And it yes. The grooming like at the beginning is usually just slow. Like trying to be friends with your parents or get friends, be friends with your friends and slowly get you more accustomed to sharing more information. Maybe because it's online. So maybe this is photos or videos, things that you might not normally do, and it starts to move into what I would call the abusive behavior. And grooming itself in general is abusive, by the way, but a lot of my patients will talk about the trauma being actual acts. So in the early stages when they're trying to get to know you, that's why it can be kind of a mindfuck, because it starts off kind of quote unquote normal. But then before we know it, we realize that we've moved into an abusive situation, something that was traumatic. And so, yes, being groomed online can be abuse and can lead to to trauma, PTSD, things like that. Another ad on says and this is to the original question says I'm so sorry going through this. I'm exactly the same. I have epilepsy and this causes issues with my memory, but my trauma is it can be classified as that is very similar to yours. And I also remember everything in great detail. And also often wonder if it was assault or as my teacher put it, boys being boys. Now, the reason I added this comment in is because nothing makes me more infuriated than things like boys being boys, as if it's okay for them to act like that because they're boys, like they can be assholes. That's just what we should expect. I do not agree with that. I find that to be a very old and antiquated statement. Also, I feel like it's led to a lot of sexual assaults and harassment of women and other people throughout the years. Not appropriate boys being boys should mean they're playing sports or playing an instrument, or playing video games and just enjoying themselves. They're being humans. When you actually interact with another person or harass or harm them, that's harassment, that's abusive, and that's not okay. I don't care if you're a boy or girl or whatever, that that's not appropriate. And so it is always assault. It is always harassment. Boys being boys is not appropriate. Okay. I just have to say that because it bothers me.
Let's move on to question number five says, I noticed recently that I'm really scared to call people join the club. I feel like a lot of people feel this way. I haven't spoken, oh, to call people that I haven't spoken to in a long time. I know they'd love to hear from me and vice versa if they called me. So what's the hang up? Pun intended? How do I reduce my anxiety around it? I'm just literally it's just literally a fear of pressing call and waiting while the phone rings. I'm not actually scared to talk to these people. What's it about? How do I make pressing the button or the waiting time while the phone rings before they pick up easier? How do I select who to call? Are there steps that I can take to get to that point? Yes, this is incredibly common and I honestly think it's the anticipation I think for I don't know if you ever felt like this, but like when the phone starts to ring and after it rings for a certain amount of rings, you're like, I hope it just goes to voicemail. I don't know why we feel that way. I think it's that an anticipatory anxiety, the build up, even if it's someone we want to talk to in the build up of it in the ringing and in that waiting ring. If we have social anxiety or any anxiety, I feel like it can build during that time and we're like, maybe I don't want to talk to them, but then you're already committed and you're like, in like they have everybody has caller ID, you know, it's like the good old days. We just hang up, you're on the hook. And so I think that's where that comes from is that anticipation, that period of time in between where we're like, I don't know, in limbo. And I find it to be a really anxiety provoking situation for a lot of people. Now, for most of my patients, it's not the people that they want to talk to that makes it hard. It's calling strangers, making an appointment, calling the pharmacy to check something. I mean, so many things are automated now that I feel like was kind of doing us a disservice when we actually have to call someone, it feels even like a bigger deal. And so my encouragement for you is to do exposure therapy. And this might sound kind of intense, but it's because you have to actually be pushing call first. We can start visualizing it, I guess is the first nice step. We can imagine that we're calling one of our friends, and we visualize it in our brain that it's happening, and we do things to calm our system down, to tell ourselves it's going to be okay. But I would just encourage you to make more calls once we get to the point. I don't know how long the visualizations will take you till you can feel okay, but I would just encourage you to keep making the calls and to call regularly. I'd want you to make about two calls a week, if not more, to people that you like just to check in, say hi. Because what we're doing by exposing ourselves to it is we're proving that there's nothing scary about it, that it goes fine, that it's easy, that it's no big deal. because I find that the longer we put something on, for the longer we don't do something, the more overwhelming or scary it can feel. When in fact, if we just kept doing it, it's it's not only exposing us to it so we can prove to our brain and body that it's not terrifying or it's not something we need to be worried about, but it also, it desensitizes us to that experience. And so first is a visualization actually. First is finding ways to calm your system down. I'm hoping that you have some ways, like a full body shake. We can dunk our face in cold water. We can go for a walk. We can, do some grounding techniques. If you find yourself wanting to dissociate, we can do some deep breathing. We can, you know, massage on our hands. Whatever it is that helps. You can do fidget toys. We can snap rubber bands. I don't know what it is that helps you calm down, but let's find some things that are soothing. We can color. You can even do it when you're on the phone to like, coloring and stuff like that. You can do it to keep your hands busy. A lot of people do stuff like that. we need to have those calming tools, visualize ourselves making the call, and then just start making calls and start doing it with more regularity so that it becomes not so scary.
Okay, final question. Question number six is, hey, Kati, what is it called when you're so concerned with the way that you walk, blink, eat, move your mouth when you talk, etc.? I feel like I walk weird. I talk weird, I feel like I'm insecure about my voice being too deep or my left being too loud. I just just little everyday things. I never hear about this. Thank you. This is incredibly common and this is what is known as anxiety. And it could also be part of our like body dysmorphia or having poor self-esteem. But the fact that you're concerned a new concern is another word for worry, right? We have to remember that generalized anxiety disorder is uncontrollable worry. Meaning no matter what we do, we can't stop worrying about it. It's not like, oh, I'm worried about how that test is going to go. And then the test happens and we're done and the worry goes away. Generalized anxiety disorder is like, I'm worried that I'm going to upset somebody. I'm worried that that person's mad at me. And we're and we're worried about all sorts of things, some of which will never have resolution to and all of which we can't make the worry go away no matter what we do. And so this in my brain is most likely social anxiety, because it has to do with the fact that you think people are like, you think that everything you do in public is going to be real weird, and that people are going to think that you're real weird. You walk weird, talk weird, your voice is too deep, blah blah blah blah. And so my encouragement to you would be to find a therapist who works with anxiety, cognitive behavioral therapy, or CBT is incredibly beneficial. Also, Act is, helpful. But if that isn't, you know, that doesn't give you resolution of your symptoms. There's also medication that can be beneficial for anxiety. there's a lot of Act has been, known to be good treatment for anxiety as well. There's a ton of things. I also, have a ton of videos about anxiety and some tools and techniques to help you better manage it, but the I guess my encouragement when it comes to this is to find ways to calm your nervous system down. When we start to feel our thoughts race, or maybe before we go out into public, are there certain things that we can do to help us feel a little bit better? We can build up our resilience like sleeping enough, drink enough water, basic things right? We can also do full body shakes, dunking our face in cold water. There's all sorts of different things that we can do and see if that gives us a little bit longer, maybe used to be five minutes before we start thinking that we're walking. We were talking weird or and now maybe it's ten and we just want to incrementally move this up so that we can feel better being ourselves and not feeling so concerned about all these tiny little things that that feel really big. Also. and then on the flip side, if we don't think that it's specifically anxiety, if we think it's the way that we talk to ourselves, which is also kind of a piece of anxiety. But if you're talking nastily to yourself about how you interact in social situations, I would encourage you to pay attention to those things you're saying and see if we can bridge statement our way back to a healthier place. Remember, bridge statements are not positive, but they're always negative. So far, thought is oh my God, my voice is so deep I sound, I don't know, I sound like a weird dude or something. smoker for 20 years. Can we argue back with the bridge statement? It's like, you know, my voice might be weird, but I'm open to the fact that there might be other people out there who have weird voices too. Not as negative, a little bit positive, but not positive. Right? So we'll feel that difference. And that can really help too. You're not alone. It's incredibly common and most likely it's due to an anxiety disorder. Okay. Thank you all so much for watching and listening. Thank you for sharing the podcast. It really does help if you're looking for more assistance, more support in our community. I have a Patreon page where you can join the live streams and ask questions. I have YouTube memberships where I have live streams and questions. There are a ton of ways to get involved. Also, over on Katimorton.com, I have workshops available available for purchase 24/7. If you want to kickstart your mental health journey, you can start over there. Have a wonderful day and I'll see you next time. Bye!
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Here are the loose “chapters” in this episode.
0:00: 💪 Overcoming inner resistance in therapy, dealing with giving up, and understanding trauma memories.
4:48: ⚖️ Navigating uncertainty can be challenging, especially for those who thrive on structure and predictability.
10:01: ⚖️ Struggling with major depressive disorder, suicidal thoughts, and self-injury despite various treatments and support.
14:30: ⚕️ Exploring alternative treatments for persistent struggles with mental health and self-harm.
18:48: 💊 Exploring concerns about lithium medication and therapy confidentiality after suicide.
23:42: ⚓ Overcoming narcissistic abuse: Reach out for support, reconnect with others, and seek therapy for healing.
28:00: ⚡ Exploring somatic experiencing and trauma-informed yoga can help connect with emotions beyond words.
32:55: ⚖️ Struggling to determine if an experience was sexual assault, vividly remembers trauma details, seeking clarity.
37:29: ⚠️ Understanding triggers and trauma response to unwanted physical contact, especially in cases of sexual harassment and assault.
42:37: 📞 Overcoming phone call anxiety and fear of reaching out to old contacts.
46:46: ⚠️ Understanding generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety in relation to uncontrollable worry and self-esteem.
Recap for https://youtu.be/wMaGa5vxIXs by Tammy AI
