episode 210
“Addicted to therapy?”
On Ask Kati Anything, your mental health podcast #210, licensed therapist Kati Morton explains how we can discover our true self, if CPTSD is a lifelong struggle, and why we can want our therapist to worry about us. She also talks about whether or not we can develop an addiction to psychotherapy and why being pampered as a child can cause us to feel helpless a lot. Finally, she helps us figure out how to support people with dependent personality disorder without enabling them.
This is a transcript of Ask Kati Anything podcast episode your mental health podcast #210 Please note that the transcript is computer generated, and may have errors.
“Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Ask Katy Anything. I'm your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, Kati Morton. I'm so glad that you're here. If you were looking for work books or workshops and you're interested in moving your therapeutic process forward, you can head over to my website. katimorton.com I have a ton of them available there.
We've lowered the price on some of them to make them more accessible. I know a lot of people are struggling financially right now, so we want to meet you where you're at. Also, if you want to be next door community in a more intensive way, you have other questions that you want to get answered. I offer four live streams a month through my YouTube memberships and also I have a Patreon account so you can go over to Petrenko, come forward slash Kati Morton and you can find the different tiers and levels there. Also on YouTube memberships, we have three tiers. The lowest tier is journal prompts twice a week that I offer At the next tier up you get 230 minute live streams a month and at the top tier you get two additional on top of everything else. You get two more 60 minute live streams a month. So find me over there. I hope to see you on one of the lives this month.
Let's get into those questions. Now, this week I'm going to explain how we can discover our true self. A lot of you had questions about how do I know who I really am or what I like and don't like. We'll get into that. Also, talk about whether or not complex PTSD is a lifelong struggle and why we can want our therapists to worry about us.
Then I'm going to talk about whether or not we can develop an addiction to psychotherapy and why being pampered as a child can sometimes lead to a learned helplessness type of experience. And finally, I'm going to help you figure out how to support people who have dependent personality disorder without enabling them. Now, let's get into those questions, starting off with question number one says, Hi, Kati. How can you discover your true self? In my last therapy session, we discovered just how much I get my self-worth and feelings of love and appreciation from helping others, helping around the house over working generally, never sitting down to enjoy my own time. I'm now at the point that I don't know who I am or what I like. How do you start to figure out your true self? I love this question because I think for a lot of us, if we attach our personality and our self-worth to what we do for other people that can often mean that we allow them to dictate our life. And I'm just proud of you for realizing that's happening and working to change.
Because for some of my patients and even people in my life, like it's almost like we kind of quote unquote wake up at one point in our life, we're like, my God, I don't even know who I am or what I like. And I was just seen an interview with a woman who has worked for 25 years in hospice care, and she was saying the number one regret of people right before they pass away is doing what everyone wanted them to do, the things that they should do, the things that they felt they were responsible for, doing, all the things for other people and not doing what they wanted. And so let's get that under control, everybody. Let's change that. Let's not have that regret. Let's consider what we truly want and let's make time for that. And so to answer your question, how do we discover our true self-worth? We're going to have to make some small changes. Now, I don't like black and white all or nothing. I don't believe that if you still value helping others, that doesn't mean that that's not part of who you are. But that's just one piece of the puzzle. We need to fill it in with other things so my encouragement for you is to first start journaling about other things that you might like doing. Let's consider all the options. Maybe I could be really into cooking. Do I enjoy cooking? Do I enjoy DIY projects? Do I enjoy outdoor activity or exercise? Do I like learning a new tool or task? Do I want to learn how to surf or I want to learn a mountain bike? Or I really want to go on another hike? Do I like that stuff to start to start snowshoeing? I don't know. Think about all the different possibilities. Do I want to really get into video games? Do I like puzzles? I know it can feel like it's endless, but that's where the Internet really comes in and helps us. If you just flutter around through TikTok or Instagram, you can see some of the different things that people are doing. You could even just look up hobbies through Instagram or TikTok and see what people are doing and try them out.
So first is to journal about it. Which ones do we think we could enjoy? Let's come up with maybe two. Okay. Don't we don't have to come up with a lot, but maybe we think, you know what? I would like to do more baking. I think baking might be something I'm interested in. We've watched it on like Food Network or one of those shows. We watch it on TikTok. I, I really enjoy that. You might even just notice what comes up in your TikTok fip because that can kind of tell you what you're interested in. Okay, Then we have those two things. Let's say we want to try to learn guitar and we want to bake. Let's try those out. Sign up to take a class or even just get on to YouTube and look up, you know, guitar lessons from takes a lot of his for that. Let's try it out. See, a friend has a guitar we can borrow. If we can rent one, we could go and see, you know, what our options are. Give it a go. And I know this sounds kind of silly. You're like, Well, is that really true self? We don't know what we like and don't like. We don't really know the things that we enjoy and don't.
You could try this out when it comes to different foods. Do you want to try different things you've never had before and see if you like it or don't like it? Do you actually like spicy food or do you think you should like spicy food? Like. But it's all in that same vein, because the one thing that I do know is that for those of us who let other people dictate our life, we never get to ask ourselves, Do I like this? Is this what I want to do? We don't think of the I. We think of us or we or them. And I want you to think of the I. What do I like? What would I want to do? And then try it out? You may find out I don't really like outdoor activity or you know what? Bacon's not really for me, but that's okay. We've already learned more about ourself by trying. So journal about it. Come up with a couple ideas and then let's start trying those out and I give you like a month to try them out. So let's say by the end of April we give, we've given it a go and then report back and it takes us time. We have to continue to do this so that we can slowly build our self from an honest perspective or an honest place of the things that we know we like or don't like, and also know that this can change over time. I don't say that to make it more complicated, just mean to don't feel like once you say, I really like to bake that you cannot change your mind, like in a year or two or six months or whatever. Be like, You know what? I tried it for a long time and I just kind of burnt myself out.
I don't actually like anymore. Like I used to actually enjoy hiking. Sean & I used to go all the time and I actually don't really like it anymore. And that's okay. We can change our minds right? I used to go downward or downhill mountain biking, but I'm a little older and I'm afraid I'm going to whack my noggin. Even though I wear a helmet, I wear protective gear. You guys. But it makes me a little scared. And I used to not be so scared. So I'm like, Maybe that's not for me anymore. Maybe I wanna do cross-country instead. It's okay to change, but get to know yourself. Allow yourself to explore, try things out, decide whether or not you remember. I want you to think, What do I like This? Is this something I'm enjoying? If not, let's move on to the next thing. Okay. But I encourage you do these things by yourself if possible, or with people that you don't know. Well, because I don't want you to be influenced again because if we have this urge, like help others and do more things for people, then we can often be a people pleaser kind of innately. And I don't want you to look out to someone else for like, what's their response? Are they enjoying it? If they're not enjoying it, then we should probably say, I don't want you to have that feeling. I want you to be able to explore by yourself with yourself and see whether or not it's something you want to do. Okay. Like, for instance, randomly, as my last little story, randomly, one of my neighbors invited me to go to a friend's party. She she was just looking for people to go with cause she's like, I want to go by myself. Her friend was having this party. It was at this place called, I want to say, the Coral Snake. Anyway, she this friend that was having the party is into dancing like Two-Step, like country dancing. Now, me and my neighbor, we don't know how to do it, but we got to take lessons there. And I had the best time. Now, if I had brought a bunch of my friends and hadn't just gone on my own with my neighbor, then I might not have been able to enjoy myself. I might felt like, if they're not having a good time, maybe we should go, You know, it's okay. But I loved every minute. I could have stayed there forever. It was so much fun, and I don't think I would have had that experience if I hadn't done it kind of by myself. Hope that kind of makes sense.
Okay, let's move on to question number two. This question says, Hi, Kitty. I hope all is well. It is. So my question is, with medication therapy twice a week and EMDR, will you continue to have complex PTSD symptoms for the rest of your life? Does it ever get to a point where you completely resolve most? If not all, of your symptoms and not require therapy and medication? Or is this a life sentence? Thank you for your thoughts. Yeah, I have a lot of us now. No, it's not a life sentence, but just like physical health. Mental health isn't a okay, I'm cured. But next thing and we never have to return to it. So let me explain what I mean by that. Now, I'm glad you have all of this support. This is very important. This is key to our recovery medication therapy twice a week, EMDR. Now, I want to throw in there that if we don't feel ourselves at least being challenged and moving towards a place of process and feeling better, I know it doesn't feel better in the moment, but we feel like we're moving through it. If we don't at least feel that try a different style of therapy. When it comes to PTSD and complex PTSD in particular, there are other modalities we call them, like types of therapy, things like somatic experiencing, where we move it through our body, kind of like from that book with the body keeps the score. That's a sense of what we're talking about. We've got to move it through. We could also maybe benefit from things like parts work or internal family systems. That's kind of where that comes from. We could also do maybe some schema work, which is, you know, similar but different. Those are just other modalities that we could try. So if you don't feel yourself being challenged and like you're in the process of working through it, maybe we seek out something different. But I'm glad you're doing like therapy and EMDR. And for my experience between the two, we should feel better. But it's not. There are other options. Okay. All that being said, when it comes to recovery, I like to think of our mental health, just like our physical health. Yes, I do believe that we can get resolution of our symptoms, meaning that all these like hypervigilance or reactivity feeling type of symptoms, they were really irritable with our people in our life and we struggle in relationships. Maybe we don't really know who we are. All of that can get to a place where it really doesn't bother us in our day to day life. But just like physical health, if we don't take care of ourselves, let's say with physical health, we always get the flu. Every year we get the flu and we start getting a flu vaccine and we don't really get the flu as much anymore, let's say. Or we go to the doctor and we get treated and the symptoms kind of go away. But if we don't take care of ourselves, if we don't sleep enough, if we aren't eating well, if we're not drinking water, if we're like burning the candle at both ends and just not taking care of ourselves, the symptoms can come back right? Like if you had a cold and started to get better, we weren't all maybe not quite all the better. But then you didn't take care of yourself. That cold could come back. So mental health is no different if we get more resolution of our symptoms. Yeah. That doesn't mean that we don't still need to be aware of the things that got us there and use those in times of stress or distress. Right? Like if we're having a difficult time in our life, we need to return to those things that helped us feel better so that we can move forward, so that we can keep feeling good if we don't do those things, if we like, just revert back to never, ever going to therapy. We, you know, maybe we do need the medication, but we're like, I don't want to be on it anymore. We go off of it. All those things can make us more vulnerable to having it come back. It doesn't mean we have to be in therapy week after week, year after year for the rest of our lives. But we might need, like I go back into therapy for short periods of time, maybe a year or two here, six months there. And then I take a break again, and I want you to consider that in your recovery process, because it's not a lifelong sentence, but we are going to have a propensity or a vulnerability to complex PTSD symptoms when we get maxed out, stressed out, when our resilience is low, just like I used to get strep throat all the time, it was like my weakness in my body. That's where it would hold up. And I'd have to be careful to have to recognize the signs and symptoms early, go to the doctor early and get it under control quickly. Right. I know that that's maybe not what you want to hear, but I don't see it as a life sentence. I just see it as something that we're going to have to be aware of in our life so that we can ensure we manage it and don't let it ever get to the place that it was before we we sought help in the first place. Does that make sense? I hope so.
Okay, let's move on to question number three. This question says Kati. I want my therapist to worry about me. I wish I could tell her this straight up, but if I do, she'll stop worrying about me. It's like love I guess I've never received. And to be honest, I enjoy it. But. And there are huge but me making her more and more worried to her as a therapist essentially means that therapy, the therapy she's providing, isn't working right. gotcha. If you make her worry more and more, then it means the therapist, not the therapy should provide, is not working. Yes, you are correct. And that she can actually and should terminate me. Right. Which is my biggest worry that she's going to leave me. And then my little mind comes up with whatever I'm unlovable anyway. So it's fine. I leave me to if I was her, I'm not worthy of love. I'm just a pain in the ass. And she puts up with me only because I pay her. And then there comes a point where I want to push her away because I've come up with she doesn't love me, so there's no point to get sicker, which to her probably seems like I'm getting better. And then she wants and actually suggests. But in my mind it translates to wants to reduce our sessions from twice a week to only once. And to me it means that she's going to leave me because I'm worrying her less, not more. Such a great mind fuckery. Sorry it is though. And then I want to get sicker again. and I have anorexia and I don't think I mentioned this anywhere, but is there any way to stop this? Okay, lots to unpack here. I have a ton of thoughts. What you're experiencing is incredibly common, especially in the eating disorder space, because the co-morbidity, meaning co-occurring disorders between it's like any kind of eating disorder and attachment or borderline personality disorder, that correlation is incredibly high, that those two types of diagnoses happen together all the time. And I think it's probably part of the fact that we were raised in some kind of traumatic experience, or at least at the very least, if you don't want to call it a trauma, an inconsistent parent. And so we go into the world with with attachment issues, with feeling like there's this void inside of us and we want to put our therapist in it. Right. And because other people in our life have left, and if we have PPD, we have this intense fear of abandonment, which is what it sounds like you're struggling with, you at least have that part of that symptomology of PPD. Then we react out of that, right? And we can want to strike first and leave first, and then we can push, pull, push, pull. We do this like I want you in my life. I don't I don't leave me. Don't leave me. Believe me, I could leave you first. We kind of go in and out of that, like kind of like black and white, which can also present itself as, like, splitting behavior where if your therapist said something that might might have triggered that abandonment, we could all of a sudden be like, they're going to leave me. And we'd be like, I hate them. They're terrible. We throw them under the bus. We want to get rid of them, right? We kind of go from people are great, not great at all in the blink of an eye. And so all that being said, I hope that made sense. Is there a way to stop this? Yes. We have to let our therapist know that this is happening now. You don't have to say, I want you to worry about me. You have to say that straight up. You could that wouldn't mean that she's going to, like, quit seeing you. But I think the bigger thing or what I would encourage you to try to put your own language to is to say to your therapist something to the effect of I'm finding that in our relationship in therapy, I want you to stick around and I'm sure it has to do with some like attachment or BPD stuff because I find myself wanting to stay sick enough that you won't leave me but not get too sick, that you feel like it's not working. And I know that's not healthy, but I don't know what to do. Put your own language to that because that's essentially what your therapist needs to know. Because if I was your therapist, I'd have a few things that I would do that would be hopefully helpful, would be at least a trial to see if this is kind of if I'm going in the right direction. So you guys know, in my private practice, I worked a ton with borderline personality disorder or BPD. So my patients with BPD, things that are effective for them is obviously dialectical behavior therapy. I've heard from some of you, you don't love that style and that's fine. There are other types of therapy that can be helpful. Even CBT itself can be really helpful or cognitive behavioral therapy. But when it comes to DVT, one of the first things as a therapist I do is I discuss boundaries in the therapeutic process. I make sure that you're aware of when you can reach out to me and not how often we're going to have sessions and not. And I might well, I'll communicate about that and then I might do one session a week for a while and have you report back of how it felt. And I know people can be like, Katie, that sounds cruel. I don't mean it in a cruel way. I mean it to kind of see what comes up for you, because that gives us a guide of where we need to go next. And then I would probably work on, you know, some mindfulness techniques you can check in when you're feeling disregulated. Are we aware of when it's happening before It's like through the roof, since you have an eating disorder? I mean, I would have you see a dietician. There's a lot of pieces there that I won't get into here because that's very specific to eating disorders. But let your therapist know that this is happening so that you can work to overcome these urges and to better understand where they come from. Right. Because like I said, it's usually born out of trauma. Inconsistent parents. We feel like we have this kind of void in our life and we're trying to fill that void with our therapists because they're the only consistent, loving person that's shown up for us. Right. And that makes sense. There's nothing wrong with it. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. This is just your way of coping with the fact that we didn't get what we needed when we were growing up for whatever reason. Right? So let your therapist know. Another angle that I might take would be inner child work, and I have an inner child workshop available on my website. Go to katimorton.com go to the shop, you'll see it in there. There's also an attachment based workshop in there that could be beneficial to. Those are both places that I could take this. And so you could say to your therapist, if you don't want to say everything. I went at the beginning, you could say, you know, I find myself like attached to you in the not an attachment like that's affecting my recovery. I'm thinking maybe we should do some attachment based work, or maybe I should do some inner child work. Maybe that would help because your therapist needs to know that you're experiencing this internally. If they don't already, if they already recognized it. But we have to let them know so that they can help because it is affecting your recovery process. You want to get sicker and then you want to get better, all with the goal of continuing to see her twice a week. And there's nothing wrong with needing therapy and wanting therapy, but it's the place where this comes from that makes me think this is part of the reason you're eating disorder exists. It exists because we feel unlovable in some way. We probably have trauma In our past we've had we have this like void, this attachment wound, and we can heal from that stuff. Therapy can be really, really helpful with that, but that's how we start working on it. Okay. I know that's a lot. There's a lot that we could do, but hopefully it gives you some ideas of how to navigate it.
Okay, let's move on to question number four, a question of resources. Kati, is it possible to develop an addiction to psychotherapy? Great question. I think I might have it because I don't have any other safe places where I can express my emotions or be me. Unfortunately, despite my efforts, it's not always possible to live in a happy environment or to leave it. And there was a comment on this, I said, Or at what point are we going because we like it, not because we need it? These are great questions. Now, I do not believe we can develop an addiction to psychotherapy, but I do believe we can become dependent upon it. And what I mean by that is that when we're in therapy is the only time we talk about what we really need to talk about.
It's the only time that we do any of the work. And when we go out of therapy, okay, so we have our 50 minute sessions or whatever, once or twice a week or whatever your schedule is. We go into that session. That's the only time we talk about the real stuff. That's the only time we do any work. And then when we go out of session, we don't do anything. We don't try to change behavior. We don't try to alter the way we communicate with other people. We're not working on anything outside of therapy. And I have to give a little pushback if that's the case with you and let you know that that's actually where the real work happens. Because as a therapist, I can't be with you 24 seven watching everything you do, trying to encourage you to make choices that will give you a different result, right? It'd be probably great if we could do that, but that's just not how it's set up. And so when you're out of my therapy or a therapy session that we have together, when you're out of my office, that's where you get to practice the stuff that we talk about. And if you feel like you're not able to do that, if you feel like you're not able to grow in your support system, like maybe try to meet a new friend and slowly get to know them or, you know, start doing more like group activities and see if you can get some connections there. All of that, like if we're not able to do any of that, if we're not able to challenge ourselves and put up boundaries or communicate more clearly, we have to let our therapist know that and we're going to challenge you to try to do some of those things. If you're therapist has given you a ton of homework and you're like, I don't can't do it. Let them know you can't and have a conversation about why we think that is. Is it too much? Is it too fast? Do we need a journal about it? First you need a role, play it out therapy. That's where the real work comes from. So I don't believe you're addicted to psychotherapy. I believe that because we haven't been able to create any other safe places that we are dependent upon it. And so I know you said despite your efforts, I don't believe it's ever I don't mean I don't believe it's like it's not always going to be perfect. I don't disagree with you and you're like, it's not it's not always possible to live in a happy environment or but I know that that's okay. But we still create safe spaces, safe time, safe relationships outside of whatever is unhealthy or unhappy in your world right now. And so I push you and challenge you to keep trying that again, I don't think you're addicted again. I think you're dependent on it. And for right now, that might be okay because everybody deserves to have a safe space. My challenge is to try to get you to create more. And I know that's a tall order and I know that that's hard. But be patient with yourself and keep talking with your therapist and keep doing the work outside of your sessions and it's going to be okay that you're not addicted or just a little dependent now. And I think, honestly, all of us go through periods where we are that way with therapy. I did that when my dad passed away. I really looked forward and even when he was about to die, like I knew he was in the hospital, it wasn't almost like I needed those sessions and I felt definitely dependent upon him. And that's okay now you're not broken. Nothing's wrong with you. We just need to get you to a place where you feel good enough, confident enough to reach out and to try to create more safe places and safe times in your life. And the question about at what point are we going because we like it and not because we need it. If your therapy is not challenging you and you feel like it's just two friends like catching up, you're shooting the shit. You don't have any kind of intensive questions where you really have to think about it or you're not challenged to see something in a different way or to act in a different way. Then you're probably just going because you like it. And honestly, it's kind of on your therapist. I want you to feel like you're the one that has to pull, you know, pull the report on it. Your therapist should do that for you. I'll always tell my patients, like, I feel like we're just kind of traditional. I think you've you've accomplished what you need to accomplish. Do you feel the same or do you have a different goal that we haven't been working towards? Right. Therapies. You call that out and then you should lessen your sessions or end and come back when you need to. But if we're just going, we don't feel challenged. We're just like catching up. Then that's where I think we're going because we like it, not because we need it. Okay, Well, I don't know and need even as I say, that need is an interesting word because we could still need the work, but the therapy is not moving us towards it. So if you feel like you're not moving towards any goals or you don't have any goals in therapy, then maybe let your therapist know that we can come up with those together. Or if you still have any symptoms that are bothersome, then you technically still need it. But if you're feeling good, doing good and you pretty much just go and chit chat, then that's where I don't think you even need it. Okay, okay.
Let's move on to question number five. This question says, Hey, Kati could you please talk about learned helplessness due to having been spoiled in pampered as a child? I can't get myself to be active and struggle to feel responsible for my own life. Thank you so much. I actually I think the video will have gone live by the time this podcast goes live. But I did a video about the youngest child, and that can often happen here where we don't talk enough about this kind of like helicopter parents and they're being super spoiled or being the youngest child. I mean, super Bowl like all of that can affect our ability to feel like that we could ever become an adult, that we can do anything on our own or that we're even capable. Like a lot of times when we are overly spoiled or pampered. I know parents think like, you know, you want to give them the best and you want to always do everything for them and make it as easy as possible for them. But we really don't want that 100%. We want people to feel we want our children to grow up knowing that they've had some adversity. Now, I'm not saying anybody like everybody needs be bullied or have a really hard time, but we like maybe we had to apply for or try out for varsity and we didn't make it. Now that's sounds bad, but it's actually good for us. It builds character and it allows us to figure out how to get back up and do it again. And going through challenges and overcoming obstacles build confidence. It's actually really good for our development as a person and our ability to weather life's storms because we can't bubble wrap our children for the rest of their lives or never have an opportunity. What we to have them in our home, living with us forever, like failure to launch. That's not healthy. That's co-dependence probably so it happens a lot. And I'm sorry that you're going through this Part of me feels like therapy could be incredibly beneficial for you as you are challenged to try new things on your own. Because if you let's say you came into my office and you told me you think this is what's happening, my first thing, my first step would be to place boundaries with your parents and have to figure out what's happening and how we can place those. But it might be that, like, we don't talk to them every single day, or we don't go to their house every day, or we look to move out or we make a plan for that or whatever. I don't know how old you are or what the situation is, but I'd want to get a little healthy distance. I'm not saying we can't be close with our families. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm very close with my family. But in this case, because you feel like you can't even be responsible for your own life, I want to give you the space to try it out, to do new things, because that's where I honestly take this. Is that have you try new things? I have you apply for a job or a different job. You know, I'd have. You. Go on to maybe take a trip with a friend, not with your family. Like I'd challenge you depending on your situation, to do things on your own and then report back. Have you learn something new? A new? Like we're talking earlier, like, I want to learn to bake or I want to play guitar or I want to see if I like hiking or have you tried some things out? Because unfortunately, when we're super spoiled and pampered and kind of helicoptered, we don't really have a true sense of self. We have the self that we think our parents want from us and our family says that we are, and we've never really been able to challenge that or question that and come up with the real answer. And so kind of going back to the what my answer was for question number one, it applies here too, and I encourage you to try things out, see what you like, do things on your own, not in a dangerous way. I don't want you, you know, like don't go hiking all by yourself on a very remote trail That's super dangerous. But I encourage you to try out different thing. Maybe go to a restaurant, sit at the bar and eat by yourself and try a different kind of food and see if you actually like it. Maybe we take a weekend away with our friends. Maybe we don't call our parents, you know? I mean, I know it depends on your level of comfortability, but we're going to have to challenge that codependence or that enmeshment, that really, really close connection with our family so that we can see and prove to ourselves that we can be responsible, we can plan things for ourselves. We can do things for ourselves. And sometimes it just takes a little extra effort. And so give those things a try. We have to slowly teach ourselves that we can do things that to prove to our brain that it's okay to try new things on our own and to do things on our own. And it's going to take time. People who weren't super spoiled or pampered as a child and kind of overprotected had opportunities to fall and get back up. And we just need to allow you that opportunity to and I know it sounds like, but I don't want to go through those. But that's what really builds this feeling responsible, feeling confident. You builds this true sense of self and feeling like we are an adult and we can accomplish things and we can persevere. And I want you to feel all those things because even though I know it comes through a little bit of discomfort, it actually ends up being our true like life force and what makes us who we are and allows us to do what we want in the world and feel responsible for our own life, which is really important.
Okay. Okay. Let's move on to the final question. Question number six says, Hi, Kati. I'm probably too late to the show. You are not. Could you talk about how family members can support can love and support people with dependent personality disorder without enabling them? Where is the line from support to enabling? I love this question. Now I have an entire video about dependent personality disorder, but just know for the sake of this answer that those of us with, you know, DPD experience This is like almost like an attachment issue, but we depend on other people. We need other people around to do everything in our lives, meaning that we depend on other people to make decisions for us. We don't feel like we can do it on our own. We essentially feel like we can't exist if another person isn't there as well. Okay, completely dependent. And you can watch my entire video go through the diagnostic criteria if you want more, but just kind of keep that in mind. It's kind of like what it sounds like dependent personality disorder. Okay. But the key here is how do we support and love them without enabling them? What's the line between support to enabling? And it's it's a tricky line. So that's why it's a really good question. I want to explain what enabling means, because people use that a lot, like, you're enabling them. And what that really means is that we are allowing for them to continue their unhealthy or dysfunctional behavior by doing things ourselves, meaning enabling is would be like, I make sure that all the bills get paid and the house is kept up so that my will stay strong, even though this isn't true, but like so that Sean can continue to be an alcoholic, let's say, or can continue to just be lazy and sit on the couch and like kind of have this like, learned helplessness thing. Okay, So it's not that I'm doing things directly to help Sean being alcoholic, I am allowing for his life to continue. I'm enabling that behavior through my behavior. Does that make sense? I think a lot of people think it's like direct. I mean, I guess it could be in some ways, but for the most part, it's usually like we're assisting or allowing for that dysfunction to continue. We're perpetuating it in some way. Okay. So that's what enabling is. Support is things like, you're going to go to therapy, I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy for you. Is there anything I can help to make that easier for you? Okay. And so the difference between support and enabling enabling allows for unhealthy or dysfunctional behavior to continue by by doing things in our own life. We are allowing for that support is when we encourage and support good behavior. That's really the difference. So notice if what you're offering to them or what you're saying to them or what you're doing in their life for them, if it's allowing them to continue that behavior or if it's supporting positive change, That's how I would tease that out. And yes, I know it's difficult and yes, if we've been enabling someone for a long time, it's almost like this pattern of behavior in our relationship dynamic can kind of depend on it. So there will be some pushback. You will feel uncomfortable, you feel like you're a bad person for not continuing to do that. So be patient as you try and we slowly shift the behavior. It takes time, but know that that's really the difference. And I do want to throw out there that in action, if we're not doing anything, we're not enabling their behavior. We actually have to do something. I know some people will think like, we need to speak up and you need to do something. You change. We can't change other people. We can try and we can encourage good behavior that will look more like support. But enabling is when we allow their life to continue and their dysfunction to continue by what we do. Yeah, I hope that makes sense. And I know it can be hard to understand, but support is, you know, being there, supporting them in their good behaviors. Enabling is when we encourage and allow for the unhealthy. So in this case, if someone had dependent personality disorder and they continually check in with us to get our feedback on something, let's say for any decision, they expect us to help them. Now, if we pick up that phone call and we help them make that decision, we're enabling. Now, if we don't take that phone call and later when we see them, we say, you know, I heard from a friend that there's this great therapist in town. Are you ever considering I know you've said, you know, like you struggle with little dependency stuff and you call me for help all the time, which is fine. I love you, but, you know, maybe we could get you into there. That's support. Or I heard you were going to go into therapy. I'm happy to drive you, if that's helpful. Or do you need help paying for that support? Does that make sense? Hope so. I'm happy to tease it out more. I know it can feel really murky, especially if we've been enabling for a long time. But just consider every time is what I'm doing supporting positive change or helping perpetuate dysfunction. Be honest about it. I think you'll know the answer.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening and watching. Thank you for sending your questions in. Thank you for sharing this podcast. It all really, really helps. Have a wonderful rest of your week. Do your homework and I'll see you next time.
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
On Ask Kati Anything, your mental health podcast #210, licensed therapist Kati Morton explains how we can discover our true self, if CPTSD is a lifelong struggle, and why we can want our therapist to worry about us. She also talks about whether or not we can develop an addiction to psychotherapy and why being pampered as a child can cause us to feel helpless a lot. Finally, she helps us figure out how to support people with dependent personality disorder without enabling them
01:05 Ask Kati Anything ep.210 podcast summary
01:42 How can you discover your true self? In my last therapy session, we discovered just how much I get my self-worth, and feelings of love and appreciation, from helping others. Helping around the house, overworking, generally never sitting down to enjoy my own time. I'm now at the point that I don't know who I am or what I like. How do you start to figure out your true self?
08:38 With medication, therapy twice a week, and EMDR, will you continue to have C-PTSD symptoms for the rest of your life? Does it ever get to a point where you completely resolve most, if not all, of your symptoms and not require therapy and medication, or, is this a life sentence?
13:02 I want my therapist to worry about me. I wish I could tell her this straight up. But if I do, she'll stop worrying about me. It's like.... Love (I guess?) I've never received and to be honest... I enjoy it. But. There's a huge "BUT." Me making her more and more worried to her as a therapist essentially means that therapy she's providing is not working, right? And that she can and actually should terminate me. Right?!? Which is my biggest worry. That she's gonna leave me. And then my little mind comes up with "Whatever, I'm unlovable anyways so it's fine. I'd leave me too if I was her. I'm not worthy of love. I'm just a pain in the ass and she puts up with me only because I pay her." And then there comes a point where I want to push her away because I've come up with "she doesn't love me so there's no point to get sicker", which to her probably seems like I'm getting better. And. Then she wants (actually suggests but in my mind it translates to "wants") to reduce our sessions from twice a week to only once. And to me it means that she's actually gonna leave because I'm worrying her less. Not more. Such a great mind fuckery. Sorry. It is though. And then I want to get sicker again. Oh. I have anorexia. I don't think I mentioned it anywhere. Is there a way to stop this?
19:57 Is it possible to develop an addiction to psychotherapy? I think I might have it, because I don't have any other safe places where I can express my emotions, or be me. Unfortunately, despite my efforts, it's not always possible to live in a happy environment, or leave it. (COMMENT: Or at what point are we going because we like it, not because we need it?)
25:10 Hi Kati. Could you please talk about learned helplessness due to having been spoiled and pampered as a child? I can't get myself to be active and struggle to feel responsible for my own life. Thank you so much! 30:16 Hi Kati I’m probably too late to the show…. But I know you read all of these comments. Could you talk about how family members can love and support people with dependent personality disorder without enabling them? Where is the line from support to enabling??
Here are the loose “chapters” in this episode.
Exploring the Journey of Mental Health Recovery and the Importance of Self-Care in Therapy Sessions: Addressing Dependency, Attachment, and the Impact on Personal Growth
0:00: 🔍 Discovering true self by exploring hobbies and interests beyond helping others.
4:24: 🌱 Exploring personal interests and hobbies to discover true self and preferences.
8:36: ⚖️ Navigating the journey of mental health recovery and the importance of ongoing self-care to prevent relapse.
12:21: 💬 Struggles with therapist attachment and fear of abandonment in therapy sessions.
16:25: 💬 Exploring the possibility of developing a dependency on psychotherapy and its impact on recovery.
20:28: 💬 Dependency on therapy is common and not a sign of addiction; focus on applying therapy learnings in real life.
24:28: 💬 Addressing learned helplessness due to being overly spoiled and pampered as a child during therapy sessions.
28:38: 💡 Supporting individuals with dependent personality disorder without enabling them is crucial for their growth and independence.
33:36: ⚖️ Understanding the difference between supporting and enabling behaviors in relationships.
Recap for https://youtu.be/ujUyw3vTxFs by Tammy AI
ONLINE THERAPY (enjoy 10% off your first month)
While I do not currently offer online therapy, BetterHelp can connect you with a licensed, online therapist: https://betterhelp.com/kati
